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how very unapologetic


jesseh

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you all read very well. bash you can call me negative all day and all night and ill laugh every time something i said was correct.
i don't have an issue with progression. simply put as everyone has acknowledged we dont have a roster for mythic. we cant sit people who continue to fuck up. which is fine if thats the way you want to go about it. i dont its that simple we can carry heroic we can carry normal we can get everyone there moose mounts, we cant do that for mythic. 

months down the road we will do it fine we will probably get to Gorefiend and unless there's huge nerfs to him we will end up calling things til Legion there. not negative, reasonable expectation.  

I'm fine putting in effort if we see results. i've been around every extra night for highmaul and blackrock trying to kill the final bosses and if we chose to progress the same way in HFC i would had been there for that too. the effort demands progress. i have no issue with how things are run during heroic or normal or w.e. mythic isnt the same, we can band-aid normal or heroic we can do what snugg always did and just over heal things when people cant perform. thats not currently an option though or we fall too far behind on dps because hey this one shot is still a one shot. 
 

here's the important part: We dont have to be what we were in SoO. openly handicapping ourselves to preserve everyones feelings is bullshit. and based on conversations with fatty and most of the raid team. we need more people. we dont have the roster to sit people under performing. until then we cant progress mythic. this post is me freeing up a night to do other things. you can all disagree with me as much as you want idc i know i'm right, and i know you know i'm right too.  I'll be around to gear people up so you can all attempt progression. content is burning me out, and these mythic attempts just do it so much faster. 

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Terrors is a shitty show mainly due to lack of a good plot buildup towards the writers' message. The conflict with Five was just the cherry on top. 2/5 for the good will in criticism of the old national Japan's right wing thinking but nothing else out of it. The cynical message is here, but the delivery isn't.

And back to your point about being unable to carry people in mythic. Your argument is completely invalid because people were being carried even in our mythic Hellfire Assault kill. You think we downed that boss because everyone was doing their part? Some people did more than 1 person's worth and some people did less. That's just how ATR raiding has and will be done. I'm pretty sure we even have the dps check to kill Korm and council with 19 people in the raid. You can carry people through early mythic bosses until you hit Gorefiend or the upper floor bosses, at which point ATR may stop raiding mythic or continue piling corpses in raid untill Legion comes out. But at that point, simply following mechanics isn't enough and everyone will have to put out as much numbers as they possibly can. People who do mechanics but don't pull good numbers may just as much of a burden as people who get oneshot by the same mechanic.

And I told you that people not learning their class isn't "unreasonable". That's just a standard you set up yourself. I could feel that everyone who does less dps than me should practice and learn their class because doing less than your sim dps is unreasonable. Heck, they could go read a guide and practice like you suggested watching a fatboss guide. Everyone has different standards and you can't enforce it upon other people and expect them to accept it as their own as well. This is why I said you shouldn't feel frustrated because although some people may change with criticism, some don't (or can't).

Your current solution to the problem is sitting people who mess up constantly but you have also acknowledged that we don't have the bench to do that. So the only solution at this point is to either give up or test the limits of some people's backs. Since we have 20 people and also people who want to push for mythic, the current plan is the latter.

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this whole thing is just getting out of hand. i'm taking a break from mythic. we can or cant fix things down the line. but for now i'm taking a break i will reexamine  the situation at a later point and make a decision to come back or not then. in the mean time i'd like to state that i have the utmost faith in roqwell to do her best to carry everyone else. 

Mokou i understand what you are saying, i agree with some of your points and disagree with others. and i think thats fine. as i've said previously i do believe that we could probably eventually get to gorefiend. but the fights are only getting harder here on out. 

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I think this entire thread has been blow out of proportion.  Both sides bring up some valid points. And all these points have been discussed in length numerous times over the past year.  This has been a very long and aggravating xpac. If you want to step out for mythic kills that's fine. It's going to hurt the raid as a whole to lose a competent DPS but we're going to continue to progress as long as we can. We've spend ONE week on Mythic so far as we managed to down first boss and the second boss is as good as dead. Yes we may or may not have to carry people though that kill but that's fine cause the boss is going to die.  There has been some discussion on how to handle certain people to help them with mechanics. I personally wont hold anything against you regardless of what you do your still my buddy!

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4 hours ago, Phobia said:

So I later get to decide if the raid wants to carry a rogue to new mythic kills that's he's never done before? Cool.

well first of all i know what fatboss is and already know the fights. 2nd of all it'll be like 3 weeks im sure you'll still be on the same boss. 3rd you dont have to take me on progression until i would know the fights or you needed a 20th. all as it should be. 

i'm taking a break, this content sucks. ill farm gear for people thats not a big deal. hopefully people will understand the fights better. hopefully people will stop taking all of this as a huge personal attack which it is not. hopefully people start seeing a different point of view not instantly disregarded as something said out of malice or spite. i dont have malice or spite towards anyone in the guild in case that wasn't clear.  the only person i've actually disliked was the salt lord himself muln. i've just been around long enough to know we will continue to run into problems going down the road we have chosen, and you can stick to that road. thats fine.  eventually ATR will get there.  

38 minutes ago, Mythosaur said:

You know what would make mythic easier? Like 5 Demon Hunters

deal everyone can be melee and just side step bad things. and if we need ranged we have eye lasers.  

2 hours ago, kansir said:

I personally wont hold anything against you regardless of what you do your still my buddy!

kansir gets it. 

26 minutes ago, Mortelinnor said:

Worry not, for one of those will be Mort the Proven Assailant!

get on that monk carry hard mort

 

 

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this entire argument could have been avoided is you stated simply that you are burnt out. Instead you chose to put the blame on the rest of the raid like an asshole. You are a pretty good example of an average ATR raider. You do well enough, but you are not min/maxing, you are playing an inferior spec, you have minimal preparation for new boss fights., and in case you have forgotten, during highmaul/brf, you were one of those we had to carry because you constantly failed mechanics and you were toward the bottom on our dps meters, and you come to this thread with your chest puffed out acting elitist and caused a bigger argument than was needed or wanted.

I love you man, but you need a reality check from time to time.

 

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i remember it..me fucking up and being called on it made me a better player. like i wasnt watching timers and would killing spree into bad, my ui was shit, now i'm observing timers i'm avoiding mechanics i have better macros and i have better general raid awareness.  i'm not trying to come out or off like an elitist prick. i'm pointing out where we need improvements for mythic. i'm also not blaming the rest of the raid. i'm trying to be as vague as possible when assigning partial blame. 
 
i actually disagree with not min/maxing, or having minimal preparation for new content. anything i replace i look up first i'm maxing my upgrades and doing heroics every day for the valor, always have augmented runes up, food, flasked, i understand the fights and if i don't then i can watch and see what i'm doing wrong and adjust and fix it, sometimes to a point of dps loss. i know what i'm going to do every fight what i do if i'm targeted by x i do y. i know what needs to happen i know what to interrupt and where to stand i know how to do every fight.  this has been essentially the same content since june or whenever HFC came out.  i'm a bit burnt out, but its the wiping to (for lack of a better word) stupidity thats really doing it. and thats when i say something snide. because we are better then that. and this whole thing i want people to improve i want people to find a balance between having fun and being better. i know there are things i need to improve on too. i'm not denying that, but i still feel there are more pressing issues to attend to.  i dont want to sit anyone forever, but i also dont want to be on the same boss forever. 
 

i love ATR i love that we have things set up outside of WoW and we have such a community around us. i love we get together a few times a year and hang out drink and party with each other. and i love both our raid team and our raiders. even mort because he makes me laugh at all the things we can make him say. but sometimes tempers flair or someone says or does something. like pika not doing trash gump trying to lay down the law for some reason or even this post. but none of it changes what and who we are as a community as players and as friends. we might not be in a situation any of us are overly fond of, however we still find ourselves here with a choice. to call it or go with what we got. and i'm honestly still on the fence about both sides. the sense of accomplishment is great on progression, but the wipes are often frustrating. thats why i'm taking a break from mythic for a bit, like i said i'll still help people gear up hopefully my absence will not fully stop all of you from proceeding.  i dont want to be high and mighty i want to offer food for thought. i never wanted perfection i just wanted improvement. i'm sure you can figure it all out though. 

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I really only skimmed the comments but I believe I still have some valuable input, the word "albeit" is one word and is not "all be it." (As seen in the OP)

Also, I think you all are misunderstanding his comment on the 125 buff food. It's not about whether the extra 25 stats are going to push us over the edge to kill the boss, rather it's a good indicator on if we are actually putting our full effort into killing the boss. We have players that range from casual to hardcore and at all different skill levels, but we all are here to kill internet dragons. When someone who is more serious about raiding is willing to put in the time to help more casual players by gathering the optimal food, the least you can do it actually use it. 

 

Edited by Skurvy
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